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Immunity of different breeds of guppy - Форум / ForumImmunity of different breeds of guppy - Форум / Forum
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Форум / Forum » Poecilia reticulata Peters 1859 (English-speaking forum / англоязычный форум) » Biology » Immunity of different breeds of guppy
Immunity of different breeds of guppy
genetika-guppyДата: Пятница, 14.08.2009, 16:01 | Сообщение # 1
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We know that different breeds of guppy have different resistant to changes in external environmental factors, including pathogens.

Much of this depends on the confrontation of the immune system of fish - Immunologists have adopted the term as "the tension of immunity", that describe state of immune system.

In a normal immune function in fish affected by several factors - living conditions, stress, the presence of infectious agents in the aquarium and the presence / absence of immunity to them, genetics and much more.

In this topic, I would like to talk about the genetics of species in relation to the functional status of the immune system.

We know that the strongest immune from wild fish caught in nature.

Natural selection has the strongest specimens!

In an aquarium situation is very different. Here is (almost always if there is no selection of "immunity") occurs crossing inbred fish (to achieve the desired tail shape or color), often leading to almost complete loss of resistance to various diseases to pathogens. This breed should be "live" is not long.

What are the methods that breeder has been able to avoid these problems?

First, the use of breeding fish with a maximum count globally dominant genes!

Of course this is not always possible, but for example, even the albino can be done with a great deal of "wild" genes and this fish will be much stronger than, for example, albino, not having a minimum of dominant genes in the genotype.

You can also use fish which had various diseases, as well as having immunity to them - they proved that their immunity is a normal function and to cope with these infections.

Often, this fish comes from Asia. It is immune to many of the Asian contagion, but our home - no. Therefore, we needs cross with wild fish ideally, for example, Asian and Russian (other world) breeds. This fish (of course with the correct selection) will be strong, healthy and will be pleased with you its beauty for many years ...

 
GregДата: Воскресенье, 09.05.2010, 09:09 | Сообщение # 2
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Guppies can have their immunity strengthened by having their immune systems routinely challenged, and only selecting the strongest to breed from.

When we disinfect nets or siphon hoses when going form tank to tank, or when we use medications for disease outbreaks, we create weaker fish.

6 years ago, I experienced up 95% viral wipeout. Once, an entire strain of German Red Lace Snakeskin was wiped out-- hundreds of fish! But I had a very few females survive, and they had fry. Now my German Red Lace are stronger than goldfish. They have been inbred for 5 years now.

Today, if I see a really old fish get Ick, Popeye, or Fungus, I do not even remove from the tank. They are no danger to the younger, healthy fish.

See this article by Anthony Fischinger on Fancy Guppies UK:

http://www.fancyguppies.co.uk/page68.htm

Добавлено (09.05.2010, 09:09)
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Also, not all wild traits are dominant.

The erect ears of the wild Wolf are recessive. The dominant ear carriage in the canine is a hanging or drop ear as in the Bloodhound. This dominant trait was obviously selected away from in the Wild, and once a Dominant trait is lost, it is lost for good. So all wolves have erect ears. But, technically, it is a recessive.

If a guppy breeder reaches a "bottleneck" of inbreeding depession, sometimes the population will come through even stronger than the original outbred stock. The Llewelyn English Setter, and many old English Foxhound packs are examples of the "PURE VIGOR", as opposed to "hybrid vigor"

The Canadian Inuit Dog, or Greenland Dog has very a very high inbreeding coefficient; and, yet, is far healthier with fewer problems than, say, a German Shepherd. In fact, hip dysplasia is unknown in the Greenland or Canadian Eskimo Dog. Where mortality is high due to harsh environmental culling factors, inbreeding is a very efficient way of breeding.

Homozygosity, heterozygosity, recessive, dominant, inbed, outbred-- it all matters not. So long as one breeds the wrong two fish, one will have problems.

My German Red Lace Snakeskin and HB Blue Deltas are as strong as any wild guppy because I "proof" them by subjecting them to less than optimal conditions. They can easily take cold, heat, high nitrates, dissolved organics, low oxygen, viral, and bacterial assaults with ease. Those that could not take the conditions or were not fertile never contributed to the population. I select all my breeders for conformation from a colony tank, and fry must survive high predation from adults before even gaining maturity-- makes for really hardy fish. If I have 50 fry in the colony tank, those are the survivors from 20-30 drops of fry! Those 50 fry are certified strong, and worthy of being bred if they grow up to be nice specimens.

 
genetika-guppyДата: Воскресенье, 09.05.2010, 23:54 | Сообщение # 3
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I agree 100%. biggrin

I have the best guppy from 5 liters tank and 18-20 C temperature.

Food - flakes, nitrates much, 1 liter per fish.

Very strong immunity and best phenotype.

 
GregДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 00:33 | Сообщение # 4
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Yes, yes! biggrin When I first start with guppies, I place male from one tribe/strain in with females of another strain, and all clamp up with sickness.

Now, I can net out nice male in one tank, walk across house and place in tank with females. No problems! biggrin

I worry not! biggrin

I find guppy fed 100% flakes just as big as guppy fed live artemia or Grindal Worms. No difference! I believe size is determined mostly by genetics. Nitrates not much important.

 
ВладимирДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 01:05 | Сообщение # 5
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нитраты и плохие условия это очень важно-при этом существует напряжённость иммунитета,что способствует устойчивости организма к заразе всякого рода.
современные тех. устройства и лекарства делают из гуппи слабых жильцов
 
GregДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 01:22 | Сообщение # 6
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Yes, Vladimir, I think so, too 100%

My friend, Anthony Fischinger, has studied guppy hardiness extensively, and has found modern techniques to be problem. I see too. My fish are very strong now.

 
genetika-guppyДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 01:55 | Сообщение # 7
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Quote (Greg)
I find guppy fed 100% flakes just as big as guppy fed live artemia or Grindal Worms. No difference! I believe size is determined mostly by genetics. Nitrates not much important.

Normal immunity level is very very important for live.

As immunologist I agree with you and Vladimir 100%.

 
GregДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 04:12 | Сообщение # 8
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In America, Killifish Breeders know this, too. They keep tank not very clean. Algae and detris or debris (dirt) everywhere, with Java Moss or live plants. Water is clear, but infusoria (parmecium, rotifers) everywhere.

In America, IFGA Show Guppy Breeders keep very clean tanks, no dirt, and no plants. No substrate and very little bacteria. No infusoria. 10%-40% water change every DAY! happy Fish then die when sold to new home very often.
Show guppies fed 4-8 times/day, with 2-3 feedings of live baby brine shrimp(artemia). Frozen beefheart. No worms.
Fish must have 1:1 caudal(tail)-to-body ratio. Such fish are very old, and lie on bottom of tank. The Germans say American fish vigor is "frightening." The European IKGH fish with 8:10 caudal-to-body ratio may achieve 1:1 caudal-to-body ratio when very old. But such fish are past their prime. Some breeders then cut off tail with razor blade so old fish can catch females to breed.

Water is aged in 55 gallon vats and passed through UV (ultraviolet light) filter to remove pathogens. American guppies have little immunity for disease.

Anthony Fischinger raises his guppies outside in 55 gallon drums with cow dung in bottom! LOL happy happy He might even pee in tank! happy But his fish are very strong and will survive up to 50% from even a strong viral infection.
He sent me Breeder Lace Snakeskin Male who is 2 years old and very big and active. Stll breeds with females! biggrin

 
genetika-guppyДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 12:43 | Сообщение # 9
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Филипп пишет, что в Америке веерохвостных гуппи держат в стерильных условиях со каждодневной сменой до 40% воды, с кормлением до 8 раз в день и УФ-фильтром.

А его друг держит веерохвостных гуппи на улице в емкости с навозом на дне.
Они очень крепкие и даже при сильной инфекции 50% всегда выживает без лечения.

 
ВладимирДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 13:07 | Сообщение # 10
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ЛЮБОЙ ЖИВОЙ ОРГАНИЗМ НЕ ТЕРПИТ СТЕРИЛЬНОСТИ-ОРГАНИЗМ ВЫРАЩЕНЫЙ В ТАКИХ УСЛОВИЯХ КАК ВИЧ ИНФИЦИРОВАННЫЙ-МАЛЕЙШИЙ СБОЙ-СМЕРТЬ,НО И НЕ НУЖНО СКИДЫВАТЬ СО СЧЕТОВ ОСОБЕННОСТИ НЕКОТОРЫХ ПОРОД ГЕНЕТИЧЕСКИ ОСЛАБЛЕННЫХ
 
GregДата: Среда, 12.05.2010, 23:49 | Сообщение # 11
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Nearly 10 years ago, when I started with guppies, I tried very hard to do as American IFGA say.

I fed newly-hatched artemia always, and kept tanks clean. I always had problems-- split tails and fin rot.

All my life, for 30 years, I had raised Betta in green pond water, so I tried with guppies. It worked!

I tried many live foods with guppies, but found no difference. Now I just feed good flake. In summer, I do raise Daphnia and Mosquito larvae for guppies outside. biggrin

 
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