Genetika-guppy.my1.ru

But what is "Pearl" female? Would this be what the Japanese call "Ivory"?

Добавлено (12.05.2010, 01:11)
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I see. 90%-100% heritability. Yes, HB, for example, is very high heritability.

Есть такое понятие как наследуемость (% кол-ва особей с изучаемом признаком в фенотипе от общего кол-ва особей с этим признаком в генотипе). Так вот Кружево и Змеиная кожа видимо как раз зависят от величины наследуемости признака в каждой конкреnной породе.

Иными словами, в гетерозиготе по перламутру мы можем получить кружево - это, наследуемость 50% или змеиную кожу - наследуемость менее 50% от заполнения корпуса перламутром. Аллель один и тот же - наследуемость разная и фенотип поэтому отличается. Возможно еще другие гены задействованы.

In other words, in the heterozygote of pearl we can get the lace - it is, the heritability of 50% or snake skin - heritability of less than 50% of filling the shell nacre. Allele is the same - different heritability and phenotype so different. Perhaps even more genes are involved.

Mother of Pearl is Pearl (Full platinum). Not female.

Все возможно. Нужно изучать...

My Lace Snakeskin lines (I have three families of Green / Yellow) and one of German Red Lace SS all breed 100% true.
Never cobra zebrinous bars or snakeskin variation. The "Lace" tail is always 100% snakeskin pattern. One can only cull on basis of color, shape, or size, as pattern is 100% same.

So my question is: Where is Platinum gene in my fish? If heterozygous, I would eventually see pattern variation with male homozygous for pearl (Platinum). No?

heterozygous Pearl P?

homozygous Pearl PP

PP P? ?? Only 50% heterozygous Pearl / 25% and 25% Homozygous.

100% True-breeding Lace Snakeskin must be homozygous, then, for either Pearl or? gene. No? : D

[B] Added [/ b] (13.05.2010, 00:22)
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As I understand heritability as a percentage of a trait one can achieve in one generation.

Example: I have male guppy with 1.25 inch long body. I say this is IDEAL! (Average length is .75 inches)
Length of guppy has, say for example, 25% heritability.

Okay, I breed female to 1.25 "Male. In F1 males grow to be .75 inch + .125 inch = .875 inches long
(1.25 - .75 = .50 / 25% of .50 =. 125)

I breed F1 daughters back to 1.25 inch male. In F2 males grow to be .875 inch + .125 inch = 1.00 inches long.

I breed F2 grand-daughters back to 1.25 inch male. In F3 males grow to be 1.00 inch + .125 inch + 1.125 inches long.

I breed F3 great grand-daughters back to 1.25 inch male (now VERY OLD). In F4 males grow to be 1.125 + .125 = 1.25
inches long.

VERY IMPORTANT! This is EXACTLY how Edgar Chaisson in U.S. created Fullred Guppy! He kept breeding back daughters, grand-daughters, and great grand-daughters to ONE MALE! He was only LUCKY that the male lived so long! Luck only. Most of the time, a breeder only gets one backcross before male is too old and dies. This is why progress is so slow.

This is the part of genetics that Philip Shaddock is missing entirely! This is very important when selecting for a trait. Most of time we do not know heritability coefficient. We do know that generally fitness traits (longevity and fertility) are of very low heritability. Physical traits (size and shape) are generally of better heritability. Width of canine skull, for example, is 30-35% with each generation.

Yellow Lace Snakeskin does appear frequently (> 80% of time) on wild type gray-bodied fish. I will attempt picture now:

Addition of blue pigment causes grey wild-bodied Yellow Lace Snakeskin to appear as Green Lace Snakeskin.
I attempt picture again:

Добавлено (13.05.2010, 06:10)
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Both the top Yellow Lace Snakeskin and the bottom Green Lace Snakeskin have same base body colors.

Добавлено (13.05.2010, 06:20)
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Green Lace Snakeskin (truly green fins) occurs < 20% of time. Mostly Yellow Lace Snakeskin. Even these Green Lace Snakeskins will appear as yellow in certain lights.

Добавлено (13.05.2010, 06:33)
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In crosses I have made with Yellow Lace Snakeskin male x Green Lace Snakeskin female, the F1 is 100% yellow. In fact, a very washed out yellow. I did get a very few Green Lace Snakeskin males by backcrossing to Green Lace Snakeskin females-- maybe 4 in 100 fry! But they were strong green.

The Green Lace Snakeskin female has a clear, hyaline caudal (tail) with very slight blue-black lacing, like a finger print.
Yellow Lace Snakeskin female has a yellow hue or cast to her clear caudal.

Young Green Lace Snakeskin males have blackish-blue dorsals and tails when seen from a distance. That is to say they look like Wagtail Platies from 5-10 feet away. Maybe I should just say "dark" dorsals and caudals.

When I say Green Lace Snakeskin, I mean body AND tail. An interesting addition is that Green Lace Snakeskin have a purplish (purple-like) hint to their dorsal.

These Green Lace Snakeskin are very rare and hard to achieve. I am sure it is recessive, but I also wonder if not additive or of low heritability playing part. Sometimes, they also tend to be Topsword as well. So even a degree of sex-linkage. Perhaps the 4 Green Lace Snakskin I got in F2 were cross-over?

You show Lace Snakeskin. Lace = snakeskin pattern on tail
Snakeskin = Filigree
Cobra = Zebrinus (vertical) Bars

Germans use for Filigree for snakeskin. They use word "Snakeskin" for Cobra with zebrinus Bars.

In American IFGA, Cobra cannot be exhibited or shown as Snakeskin because Zebrinus Bars are considered a fault (bad thing). : D

Cobra (zebrinus bars) and snakeskin are related, this is true.

Cobra = bars only. Like this IIII

I have picture above now of Lace Swordtail Cobra. You will see zebrinous bars on body .. Tail is good snakeskin.

Your English is good. You understand well. I know nothing of Russian language.

Добавлено (13.05.2010, 12:22)
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Snakeskin, Lace, or Cobra not much important I do not think as far as Yellow vs. Green dominance.
In Russia you have seen Green as dominant. May be. I not know for sure In my crosses at home, Yellow is very dominant in fins (tail and dorsal).

I think female carries color more than 50% of time. Yellow Lace Snakeskin Male x German RED Lace Snakeskin female = 100% Red Lace Snakeskin males. In my fish room.

And so I use Green Lace Snakeskin females with Yellow Lace Snakeskin males; but, F1=100% Yellow Lace Snakeskin males. F1 malesx Green Lace Snakeskin males = 4 Green Lace Snakeskin males in 100 fry. But they were really good.

I then did F1 male x F1 female. In F2 I get 3-4 Blue Lace Snakeskin males. I cross these 3-4 to all F2 sisters. In F3 I get 75% Yellow Lace Snakeskin and 25% red Lace Snakeskin. I also get Blue Snakeskin with solid Blue and Blue and Yellow tails. No more Blue Lace Snakeskin.

I allow to colony breed for 2 years. Never saw another Blue Lace Snakeskin. No more. ^ _ ^ Now they give me 33% Red Lace Snakeskin 33% Snakeskin with solid Blue Tail and 33% Snakeskin with Blue and Yellow Mosaic tail. No yellow Lace Snakeskin and no Blue Lace Snakeskin. Only two kinds of females: Red Lace Snakeskin females with small, round, clear caudals and females with big Blue Sharktail caudals. I culled all HalfBlack in F2.

In order of domance, I think Red # 1, Yellow # 2, and Green (or Blue) # 3 in Snakeskin family. : D

I think only.

Уж точно не змеиная кожа.

[B] Added [/ b] (13.05.2010, 12:46)
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He has snakeskin pattern on body. He has small black spot / dot on body. He has a Lace tail because it has a web like snakeskin pattern. It is coarse now, but will improve.

[B] Added [/ b] (13.05.2010, 12:48)
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Black spot on body means nothing. I just use as a sign to tell wild-type grey body. It is sign of grey body. That is all.

In fact, many breeders breed away black spot so it no longer shows on body. Sometimes black spots appear on tail, too. We call these "peacock spots" or "snake eyes". Can be body or tail. Actually not good, but I like.

Добавлено (13.05.2010, 12:54)
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Yes, Sergey, Vladimir's Red guppy above is snakeskin body I am sure. Tail is a little hard to tell as fish is very young, but I would definitely call him a Lace Tail--a Red Lace Snakeskin guppy. He will be pretty when he grows up.

Пример - сообщения 354 и 363. До сегодняшнего дня я думал, что Lace (мелкий рисунок в виде решета) - корпус + хвост. Вобщем пока еще у нас не все ясно с этой номенклатурой.

На корпусе и хвосте есть змеиная кожа (Snakeskin) и кружево (Lace) + на корпусе еще зебринус.

Все остальные варианты с горизонтальными темными полосами на корпусе и т.п. - это взаимодействие вышейказанных генов с другими. Мне кажется, что не нужно это смешивать.