Genetika-guppy.my1.ru

Why?

The European attention to Base Body Color Blue (Blau) is good. It addresses European Blau (r1), Asian Blau (R2), and Light Blue (Hellblau) (r3) in ordely fashion. All 3 types very unique.

Asians are good at classifying strains. An Asian "Galaxy" looks like a Galaxy. A German "Galaxy" looks like something from the pet store.

Но только они совсем неправильные...

The Russian Table makes a step forward in recognizing SILVER as a base body color, and announcing patterns as sex-linked and colors as autosomal. Research on Albino not being base body color also important.

However, leucophores (white pigment) and Blau (blue pigment, Asian (R2), European (r1), and Hellblau (r3)) must be addressed by Russian Table. Blue cannot be expalined by MMGGeexx alone. More factors involved.

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 08:55)
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My Blue Lace SS are example of Blue that CANNOT be explained by MMGGeexx. No way. I tried many times to "paint guppy" with Blue and HB Blue Delta. NEVER Blue Lace SS. Guanine confuse and mix up Melanin drawing of Lace Tail pattern. Violet Phang discover this in scientific paper. Blue and Lace Tail do NOT go together, unless some kind of Blau (Asian or Hellblau) present. Maybe MBAG (Moscow Blue Additional Gene), which is autosomal or X-linked can create Blue Lace Snakeskion Guppy.

Whatever it is, it is NOT simple. If so, Blue Lace Snakeskin guppies would be all over the World, and on Aquabid. Not so.

90% of Moscow is Blue, Green, or Purple; and, yet, we see only Yellow Metal(Moscow) Lace Snakeskin, and Red Metal (Moscow) Lace Snakeskin.... Where are Green Metal Lace Snakeskin, or Blue Metal Lace Snakeskin, or Purple Metal Lace Snakeskin? NO where!

In America, IFGA breeders breed Yellow Lace Snakeskin Males to Blue, Green, and Purple Delta Females to create SOLID Blue, Green, and Purple Snakeskins for Show. No Blue, Green, or Purple Lace Snakeskins ever result!

ALL base body systems over-simplify problem.

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 08:59)
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Great German Breeder, Franz Zeiplig, try breeding German Red Lace Snakeskin male x IFGA Solid Blue Delta female for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO Blue Lace Snakeskin!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 09:26)
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When Philip Shaddock write book, "The Theory and Practice ....", he announced to the World that he is a fool!

My Mother say, "Better to keep mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to OPEN MOUTH and REMOVE all doubt."
 ^ _ ^

Guppy genetics is but a baby! : D

Add Philip Shaddock= BAD THING! Might as well invite Hitler to Peace Talks!

If Sergey, Greg, Vladimir, and Gernot walk down street, Mr. Shaddock and Franz Peter might be 20 feet ahead of us. Philip Shaddock stoop (bend) over to pick up U.S. Dollar(Ruble) on street, all we ( Sergey, Vladimir, Greg, and Gernot) see is soles (bottom) of Franz Peter's feet (shoes)! Franz Peter like male dog in heat after Philip-- ready to have puppies!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:22)
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Philip Shaddock = female guppy. Franz Peter = Male guppy!

See my point?

Kerry Collier, Anthony Fischinger, and myself see Russian point of view! We must utilize PRACTICAL GUPPY BREEDING! Many more in U.S. feel same. Oemer-- top German Breeder--- call Philip Shaddock "thief and liar!"

Dr. Sergey Apryatin, Greg, Anthony Fischinger, Gernot Kaden, Oemer, etc. not alone!

You're right that this issue has not been fully reflected in our table. However, according to Russian scientists, there is only one main type of pigment cells - guanophores. These cells contain guanine crystals that change color from white to blue, depending on the angle of rotation of the crystal.
As leucophores then my opinion is that these pigment cells are responsible for the synthesis of Pearl (Platinum), which is not applicable to the Base body color table. It is independent gene as Japanise Blue.

This fact very few people known to the world.

WE MUST LISTEN TO VLADIMIR and Dr. SERGEY APRYATIN! Hear and UNDERSTAND what they have to say!

Germans and Philip are not doing this!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:28)
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Anthony Fischinger say Russian Table is 50-year MILESTONE--- BIG ADVANCEMENT!!!!!!

He is angry at Europeans and Philip. I, too!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:33)
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Philip and Gernot and Franz Peter are intelligent! Why not LISTEN! :DP

Sergey has experience in Biology-- this is necessary to understand genetics! One cannot understand from Genetics Book alone! Too many variables!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:36)
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Already, most "knowledgable" breeder in U.S. beginning to turn away from Philip. Luke Roebuck understands the "practical" side of things.

Me? I think Europeans are being disrespectful!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:37)
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I am very sad!

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:44)
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VERY GOOD!

Kerry Collier and I have always thought white is related to blue!

This must be advanced to the World-- explained.

Добавлено (29.05.2010, 11:46)
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See Asian Platinum Full Whie Guppy! Yes! Most white guppy in the World!

Let us better understand - are angry let those who do not understand.

That is not enough. Need a great experience - he is in Vladimir Storozhev. He is our main motor.

http://www.guppy-klub-rheinland.de/hellblau_fp_107.htm

Hellblau, Asian Blau, and European Blau must be addressed by Russian Table

To say MMGGeexx for all three (3) is too simple. Jakob can get original in German (Deutche): D

This is necessary.

[B] Added [/ b] (29.05.2010, 13:21)
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ALL Russians must recognize and address, OR disprove. We cannot avoid. : D

[B] Added [/ b] (29.05.2010, 13:24)
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I agree 100% that Vladimir is great experience - main motor. But we must be prepared for questions. : D

[B] Added [/ b] (29.05.2010, 13:26)
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Franz Peter quote IFGA Table --- this is joke! ^ _ ^ Americans and Canadians not know! ^ _ ^

[B] Added [/ b] (29.05.2010, 13:29)
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Americans and Canadians are rejects of Europe in 17th Century - genetically inferior. See George Bush and Ronald Reagan! ^ _ ^ Bad gene pool. 90% inferior intellect. They support Capitalism as they lose their homes and starve on the street! ^ _ ^ Catholic Church in America say, "Amazing!"

Статья - глупая с научной точки зрения - показваются желтые и черные пигментные клетки на фоне гуанина и говорится, что синий цвет берется из желтого, черного и синего!!! Маразм крепчал...

Last 3 posts in Russian-- I do not understand!

Anyway, I wrote an article for Fancy Guppies. UK detailing why unification of strain name is important in discusion of guppy genetics.

Sergey, I see your point about my strain throwing MMGGeexx, MMGGeeXx, and MMGGeeXX. I think you have very good point. It is true!

This is why I think it necessary to select most Blue Males and breed to MANY females, 8-12 females. Best to seperate drops of each female to see which female is MMGGeexx. Will be able to teel through sons which mother is best.

Are you having any luck with explaining Russian Table to Germans?

Добавлено (30.05.2010, 23:36)
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My point about the IFGA Body Base Classification system is this: It does recognize things such as Asian Blau or Moscow. It pertains to very old American strains. For example, there is no place in such a system for Full Platinum White or Lutino Guppy.

I have start today only.

Сергей, ты противоречишь сам себе...
Eсли ты вспомнишь мою систему перевода, то как раз европейская фоновая Hellblau (другие названия Blau3; r3r3) как раз и соответствует генотипу MM GGee XX.
А это например:
цитата: "Grundsätzlich kennt der Amateurzüchter Grundfarben und Deckfarben
Das weiß der Hobbyzüchter seit Dzwillo [Dr. Michael Dzwillo; (1959): Genetische Untersuchungen an domestizierten Stämmen von Lebistes reticulatus (Peters], und davon kommt er schwer los.
...
Aber was soll im Jahr 2010 die Aufteilung in Grund- und Deckfarben!"

перевод: " со времён Dzwillo знает разводчик-любитель как основные понятия фоновый и покровной окрас, и ни не может с этим представлением расстаться.
...
но как это понимать, в 2010 и разделение окраса на фоновый и покровной"

А в остальном он описывает трехмерную структуру распределения пигментных клеток и объясняет как появляется видимый (фоновый) окрас у гуппи.
Вспомни, я говорил тебе, что он один из тех кто считает такое разделение наследием прошлого, с которым в основном не хотят расставаться...
Вот так вот...

Возможно я не все перевел правильно, но ссылка была на фото Филиппа Шеддока, который утверждал, что синий берется из желтого и черного. Я так понял, что в этой статье примерно тоже самое написано.

такое разве забудешь, но факт остается фактом...

http://genetika-guppy.my1.ru/forum/9-229-1#5562

Считаю важным внедрять новые знания именно через практические примеры.

Если я не ошибаюсь, изначально предлaгалось таблицу дополнить информацией, такой как:
макро-фото мальков для 16 фотовых с целью пoказать наличие пигментов,
тоже самое - для взрослых,
привести для каждой фоновой фотографии рыб (самец+самка) для различных пород, привести примеры изменения "покровных окрасов" при изменении фоновой
начать создавать базу данных по породам с указанием известных фактов по генетике/взаимодействию известных генов.
С двумя "слепыми" листами многого не объяснишь...